Chateau de Chinon

[MattUK]

Dare I suggest that the horizon is wonky?

[Steve Bristol]

Hi Mat & all

I think you should, because it looks that way to me also.

To be honest this photograph just does not hit the spot for me, it might be exposed correctly and has little to no processing, but there something missing for, I want to keep tilting my head to the left when looking at it and I think it lacks any punch.

The acid test for me is would I have it hang on my wall, no I would not.

As with all photography/art beauty is in the eye of the beholder, each to their own view and opinions, but I struggle when pictures are submitted for critique, but then submitter don't like what critique is offered, which in most cases is provided in a friendly and constructive manner, and should be taken that way and even if not roll with the punches, life is too short.

Not a real critique, but an observation.

Cheers
Steve

[dan123]

I think so matt,

Sorry Jools, but im gunna have to agree with the others, while i dont like over procesed images i do think this lacks that punch, and i dont think itd look great as a print, a customer wouldnt buy something that doesnt stand out or look that good, sorry just my opinion,

[jools-elliott]

OK, is the horizon wonky? No. It wasn't shot straight on to the chateau and as such it is probably giving the illusion that it is. I always use a spirit level on my camera to ensure things are straight.

I do find that different forums react differently to my work.

Here, I find that a lot of people seem more interested in the post production applied to a photo rather than the photographic technique that goes into the making of the photo.

In the original post, I explained a little of how it was done. It was in effect "photography" in the truest sense of the word as I effectively "painted with light" rather than relying on post production. I don't think one person has noted this and instead chosen to concentrate on post production.

I saw a post a while ago from a member saying that they had tried over 2 days to process a photo in various ways. Sorry folks but if it is taking you that long to process a photo then it is a failure.

Later, I'll post an interior that has had various post production on it. It was done using old school Photoshop techniques to make the photo. As such, it has a more natural feel than the HDR you see these days.

[James Blonde]

This is a general comment, not aimed at this (or any other picture) and they apply to myself as much as anyone.

To me - personally - photography isn't about the technique, production or processing of the image, its about the end product - its about the picture itself. i care about what the picture looks like and what effect it has on me.

Only then, if I'm interested, I ask questions about how it was created and what techniques were used.

Whether that end product is straight out the camera, filtered or otherwise, whether it has been lightly tweaked, or whether it has been heavily manipulated, whether you have demonstrated the best technique on the planet, no matter how innovative you have been, it doesn't actually matter if the end product - the picture itself - fails.

Are failures really failures? Well that depends on whether you applied a technique, understood the limitations, took on board feedback if you requested it (or appraised it dispassionately and objectively yourself if you are able to (and most people cannot objectively analyse their own work - and I include being hyper critical in this!)) Most importantly you need to have LEARNED from it, and applied the lessons in future. These are simply stepping stones to producing better pictures.

The failures may be in technique, composition, lighting, technical, processing, or even in judging your market / audience. The best technique, exposure, composition and minimally processed image might be let down by something simple and completely outside your control (given the times you are available to take photos) like the lighting - it doesn't actually matter if every other element is perfect, the final product still fails. In fact it may be a fantastic picture that people just don't want to buy in to! Illusion and Impression matter as much - if not more than - technical perfection.

Another failure might be lack of honesty - with yourself, or with others as to your production and technique (Wildlife Photographer of the Year 2010 anyone? Its still a good image, if only he had been honest). Just remember though that EVERY image is manipulated. Is there really a difference between waving a filter pouch over the top of an image and using a filter? How about applying a grad in photoshop? How about composite / HDR image? they are all perfectly valid tools, and can all have the same or similar end result, so really, what is the difference? Just be honest about it, and everyone (yourself included) can assess for themselves!

Some people post what they would class as finished products / pictures. Others knowingly post stepping stones to get feedback as part of their learning process - be it on technique, composition, post processing, etc. Others may unknowingly post stepping stones thinking that they are finished products. I tend to find its how the poster reacts to the feedback that indicates where they are in their journey.

Does it matter if anyone else other than you likes your picture? Not really - Assuming the picture is just for you! However if the picture is for general consumption or is there to challenge / shock, then of course it matters - even if you say it doesn't, because its not getting the reaction you wanted / hoped for. Not everyone will like your picture! Thats life. They may have genuine worthwhile feedback, or they may simply just dislike your style / manner / reaction to comment or feedback / name. Its up to you to decide whether that feedback is valid, whether to listen to it and apply it, or whether you are quite content, can answer the comment / critisism (valid or otherwise), or whether you just want to be beligerant / militant about your work!

So where are you in your journey? Are you expressing yourself and your intentions well and reacting fairly? Are you being honest and fair with yourself and with others? Are you posting stepping stones or finished images? Is the comment / criticism valid and constructive, even if you disagree? Are you willing to listen, apply and learn?

Or are you so confident and full of self belief in your pictures that you are convinced they are perfect, and any comment / criticism are just plain wrong?

[James Blonde]

Dear god, that was long! Sorry! Happy to move if not worthwhile here, but the topic seemed to be moving in that direction.

[MattUK]

Originally Posted by jools-elliott

OK, is the horizon wonky? No. It wasn't shot straight on to the chateau and as such it is probably giving the illusion that it is. I always use a spirit level on my camera to ensure things are straight.

Sorry Jools, but the horizon is wonky. The horizon can be gauged by the level of the water. if you place a straight line against the water leve (such as the edge of a window on your computer)l, you'll see that it's down on the right-hand-side.

Originally Posted by jools-elliott

Here, I find that a lot of people seem more interested in the post production applied to a photo rather than the photographic technique that goes into the making of the photo.

Interesting - I've observed that the majority of people here are more interested with the image overall, irrespective of whether it's achieved solely in-camera or using PP.

Originally Posted by jools-elliott

In the original post, I explained a little of how it was done. It was in effect "photography" in the truest sense of the word as I effectively "painted with light" rather than relying on post production. I don't think one person has noted this and instead chosen to concentrate on post production.

This supports my above point. People are commenting on the image as a whole, and not the fact that it's been done without PP.

Jools, you appear to be a bit of a die-hard "no post production" fan. That's fine, and more power to you. However, I'd suggest not getting worked up at responses from people who have moved on from that, and view photography to be an amalgamation of camera and digital post-production. You're only going to be disappointed.

[MattUK]

By the way - my point regarding the horizon was very picky, and said partly in jest to lighten the mood somewhat. I agree that the photo lacks punch (which could be easily corrected in PP), but if you like it as it is then that's great

It does raise the question why it's been posted in the Critique forum though!

[jools-elliott]

I think, I'm just going to give up.

Do I think my images are perfect? Nope. Do I agree with some of the comments? Yes and no.

What I will say though is that my images and work is used in various places, so I must be doing something right.

Could I add in more punch to the image? Yes, quite easily if i messed with the curves. However, I prefer my work to be subtle.

Why is it in the critique section? Where else? On another forum I'm a member on there are two separate threads. One for critique and one for showing your work. Maybe that could be here?

In the end, maybe it would easier to just go away and leave this forum...

[James Blonde]

Jools, for what its worth, I like your intent, I like your fake grad on a long exposure (and I'll learn from that and look at apply it), but the picture just doesn't do anything for me compositionally, and in terms of lighting. I don't think any amount of post production would change that for me, so its not a question of curves, levels, HDR, etc.

having looked at your website, much of your images and work are excellent and I'd guess you have some success! This one isn't such a good one in comparison. There is no reason I can see to leave, and I'm not really understanding why the comments are resulting in you wanting to walk away?

If you didn't want to put it in the critique section, I'd have put it in the Special Interest Forums - Landscape Photography at the bottom (although you may still get comments!).

So no, don't go! I'm quite sure that nothing said by anyone here is meant maliciously or ungraciously, but different people like different things! However I'm taking something positive away from it, and I'm sure others are too, and I'm sure there is more we can learn from you and your technique, just as I'm sure you can learn and challenge yourself on these forums!