Photographic workshops - some questions for you all

[GeoffWessex]

Ah yes, but I was referring to about ten years ago when the minimum wage was 5.10 pounds an hour...."I might have been able to go for about a fiver an hour (10 years ago) but nothing more".

The UK Minimum Wage is now a little under 6 pounds per hour at 5.93 - WOW! There are an awful lot of people who are having to work at that rate..... and it's probably all I'll get when I return to the UK (I'll be 60 - fat chance of getting much more!) Of course, there will be plenty of people able to afford a weekend in the Auvergne but it would still be a 1000 Euro weekend once travel, food and accommodation are included. I'll stick with a day out on the Sussex Downs and the occasional longer trip, with B&B and no teacher.

[eysha]

Just read this post out of interest and seeing Geoffrey's name too. I am with Geoff in that, speaking personally, no way could i afford such teaching. In fact i would rather put the money on upgrading my camera because there is so much to learn from the internet and from great people here like Geoffrey, who helped me out a lot and for that i am still very gratefully to him. I haven't forgotten Geoffrey.
There are so many videos on the net about all aspects of photography and it's free along with the excellent magazines now produced that only those with money to spare can afford such things. I am self taught simply by researching the subject and then joining this forum and getting the help of wonderful people like Geoffrey and for me that is the way it will remain too.
I really wish you well but for me, like Geoffrey i will just have days out near home, no transport unfortunately, and take lots of photos and learn from them. I know it is better to have someone to show you but money is tight all over the world now and i feel it might get worse too so i cannot afford to spend money on luxuries and that would be a luxury. Wish i was nearer to geoffrey though.
Maybe others might be interested, all of the above is just my opinion, the opinion of a newbie to photography.
E.

[jools-elliott]

Thanks Eysha, I appreciate the words.

One last thing I will say to Geoff. I think that you are way out of touch with what people are charging. I'm unsure as to why you bought the minimum wage into this. For me, this is NOT a hobby but it is my work.

Here in France, I pay taxes as a photographer and that is what my status is recognized as. It is in no way a hobby but my work.

Every week, I work hard to try and build up my client base and slowly but surely that is growing.

Thinking that the work that I carry out is only worth £6 an hour is quite frankly below the belt. After all the exchanges we've had over at the RPS I would have, quite frankly, expected more from you.

[eysha]

Jools, i am sure Geoffrey wasn't meaning to offend in any way and i think he offered that simply to bear it in mind that money is tight.
I can understand you and what you are saying as i am an artist and spend very many hours producing a work of art and i, like you, think my time and effort and knowledge is worth more than the minimum wage too but to be honest an item, no matter what it is, is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So, while you think your time and expertise is more valuable, and i am sure it is, that may not be the case as far as others are concerned. It seems to me, from my own point of view, that people are just not spending at the moment.
I try hard to keep up to date with art prices and i keep mine low and am always happy to negotiate a price too but art like other things is slow to sell at the moment. Mostly i donate art to charities to raise funds for them as i think it is better than having an art piece lying collecting dust but that is just me.
I think Geoffrey's points were valid as were mine but we all see things differently and so we should.
Don't fall out over it though, life is too short.
E.

[jools-elliott]

Don't worry Eysha, I'm not. The thing is though, if you look at the prices that photographic workshops costs you can pay anywhere from around the £100 mark to someone like Joe Cornish who is £249 for a day.

I'm aware that money is tight with people and I'm not blind to what is going on in the financial world at the moment. However, as someone whose sole earnings come from photography I need to look at other potential income streams. I need to look at how much something like a workshop costs to run mixed in with at least breaking even which includes having to pay tax and national insurance.

[eysha]

As i said Jools, i totally understand with being an artist. I find workshops not worth the headache right now but that is just me. I still do my artwork as i love doing it and if it sells great, if not... I move on to the next piece. I keep myself occupied with photography, well learning more about it, and my artwork and my writing too but yes, if i could sell and get more money i would upgrade first.
Keep your chin up, if it is meant to happen it will and remember there is a daffodil in every dustbin, lol.
My web address is on the bottom of my signature so if you find someone interested in buying something i will see if i can get anyone interested in your workshop, lol fair exchange?

[jools-elliott]

Thanks Eysha. I will bear you in mind!

One thing that I was thinking about doing was running 2 one day trial workshops at a reduced rate. By doing this, I would have feedback etc as to what people thought.

It's something I'm looking at sometime at the beginning of October.

[eysha]

Here's a thought for you, hope it helps. How about running a really cheap, or even free, work shop to a select few students, even on line, in exchange for feedback with the guaranteed use of the students name and endorsement? After all how much does/would advertising cost you?
This could help and save you time and money and work towards your workshop by thinking about what the students have said.
I would be happy to do a, for me (free) on line course and give you genuine feedback of your teaching skills and how good you are, if that would help. Ok i am new to photography but i am sure that would help us both and although i am not known in photograph i am in art in that i have arwork in the collection of Prince Charles, i have the letter from St James Palace to prove it, and a couple of other celebs - see my web site to read more.
Just a thought that might help - who knows? If you are not interested in that maybe something else will turn up, you never know what is around the corner.
E.

[jools-elliott]

Eysha. Do you know what, why not. Just for you, I will see what I can as you have asked!

The only thing that I will say is that my work is predominantly landscape based, so I don't know where that fits in with your style.

As well, as of tomorrow there is a likelyhood that my wife and I will be saying hello to our first child as the baby is due tomorrow.

However, if you are interested and you are the first come first serves, I'll do it! Just PM me.

[GeoffWessex]

I wasn't bringing in the point of minimum wages to suggest that everybody was on that, but just to show that the range of income is very wide. There are also people who CAN afford a 1000 pound weekend in France, but most cannot. The 40 Euros an hour you get from teaching is very good, and I'm sure your time is worth much more than six pounds an hour.... and if you have 5 or 6 people on a course you'd be getting perhaps close to the 40 Euros. However, I can't be spending more than I'm earning, and that goes for most of us (remember Mr Micawber?) 6 pounds an hour may seem peanuts to you but it's food, transport, taxes, rent, council tax, electricity, gas and all the other bills for a couple of million people. No wonder most of us need two jobs.

I thought I'd have a quick look to see what's available and the costs, so I just picked up my nearest photo magazine and came across "Gower Photographic"..... worth looking at this page and seeing what's included.... 490 pounds but including accommodation, breakfasts and lunch. So your estimate for France is above (but quite close) to the going rate.... but travel to France plus food and accommodation may just push it too high for many potential punters.

Perhaps I should have commented on just the content of the courses - and not mention the charges - but you asked.