Why's and Wherefore's?

[GeoffWessex]

Originally Posted by Cathus

dan,

I had a not dissimilar experience, not that people weren't friendly, though I still don't know everyone's name yet, it was just that 95% of the members were retired & I'm sure some are founder members when the club formed 90 years ago, i.e. not very forward thinking.

After the first year few months I thought the best way to change things was from the inside, so I became the secretary at the AGM, now I have a say in changing things, we are attracting younger members & have changed the programme from the old stuffy competitions & slideshow talks on tape.

That's very similar to what I did..... when I joined my club there might be 15 to 20 members actually turning up for meetings. Oddly, only a couple were dedicated film users but there were many 'cardigan' wearers running things. (I've no problem with film users, having done all that, got the T-shirt etc 25 years earlier - even now I'm planning to get a used Medium Format film camera for my landscapes). I'd been in the club for about 18 months when the Secretary came up to me for something and couldn't remember my name - in a club of 20 members! After my second season, three of the 'Exec' left at the same time - we lost some expertise but also some very stodgy outlooks. A member was cajoled into being the President and I started making suggestions..... for which I was 'penalised' by being given the role of '2nd Vice President'. Then 1st VP, then President. We now have 85 members..... and I've got a major headache in trying to fit everybody's requirements in to a season (in fact, I know it can't be done... but I'm going to see what can be done). I'm getting there!

It's amazing how much new photographers want to learn from a club, though.... I've always got this battle between...
a. trying not to turn the club into a college (but still providing some technical know-how), and
b. just doing the usual things that clubs do - basically providing an environment to be inspired by good photographs and their makers, allowing members to compare their work and to just enjoy meeting for photographic chat.

[ABERS]

Originally Posted by karenoliver

Just been looking at the RPS page and I can obtain the licentiateship without having to submit any images because of my previous photography studies. The fee is expensive however and I am just wondering would it be worth my while?

Karen

It all depends what you want from it. Some people view getting a distinction as a challenge that can't be ignored, to others it's a waste of time and effort.

I know some folk that have spent years trying to get an FRPS, not just to be able to put those four letters after their name but to meet the very exacting challenge that it poses.

It doesn't open any previously closed doors to you, nor necessarily mean that you will automatically have praise heaped on your work.

[AndyStevens]

Have to say I quite like the idea of having to produce coherent and high quality bodies of work to form an RPS panel. Would be quite a challenge compared to just taking a nice shot from time to time. I haven't jumped in yet mainly due to costs - but also because I've asked a few pros and none of them think it helps them get on in their career so I kind of questioned the validity for me personally. These pros all preferred getting out taking shots that please them, and hopefully others want to buy.

As Geoff mentions, a lot of people want to 'learn' photography by questioning others. It appears that you can buy a DSLR, PSE and make great images. I think it's great that more and more people are taking up this great hobby - but aren't clubs and distinctions supposed to hone skills? Not teach from scratch? It does surprise me how many people post on forums asking 'what settings should I use to...' kind of things. It doesn't take long on the Internet or in magazines to find the optimum landscape settings. I guess a question could be - has digital made people lazy? You often read articles on how to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. 'Rescue exposure', 'add an interesting sky' etc seem too prevalent in my mind.

Or am I turning into a grumpy old git?

Cheers
Andy

[karenoliver]

Originally Posted by ABERS

It all depends what you want from it. Some people view getting a distinction as a challenge that can't be ignored, to others it's a waste of time and effort.

I know some folk that have spent years trying to get an FRPS, not just to be able to put those four letters after their name but to meet the very exacting challenge that it poses.

It doesn't open any previously closed doors to you, nor necessarily mean that you will automatically have praise heaped on your work.

I can understand people wanting to rise to the challenge and probably if I did decide to join I would attempt the Associateship, which is the next level up. I think the challenge would be the only reason for me, as I don't have a website or business so the letters after my name would not gain me anything other than a sense of achievement.

Karen

[GeoffWessex]

Originally Posted by AndyStevens

Have to say I quite like the idea of having to produce coherent and high quality bodies of work to form an RPS panel. Would be quite a challenge compared to just taking a nice shot from time to time. I haven't jumped in yet mainly due to costs - but also because I've asked a few pros and none of them think it helps them get on in their career so I kind of questioned the validity for me personally. These pros all preferred getting out taking shots that please them, and hopefully others want to buy.

As far as I can see, and remember from my time around camera clubs (in your area actually, Andy - Gillingham, Blandford, Shaftesbury) the LRPS is "a very nice thing to have"... but really nothing more. However, whether anybody wants to do it or not, it's worth joining the RPS Forum (you don't have to be a member but you have to wait a couple of days for approval) so that you can see the successful LRPS and ARPS panels - they have a 'Distinctions' sub-forum of their own. The LRPS panels are very good but perfectly achievable by a competent photographer, while the ARPS really does have some quality work.

As for the FRPS that ABERS refers to, to achieve that distinction (which it is, at least in the non-professional world) you've just about got to invent a new photographic technique or to have served in a senior capacity of the RPS organisation (a judge, speaker etc) and, I think, have already gained the ARPS. I believe some people are actually invited to accept an FRPS.

[ABERS]

Originally Posted by GeoffWessex

As for the FRPS that ABERS refers to, to achieve that distinction (which it is, at least in the non-professional world) you've just about got to invent a new photographic technique or to have served in a senior capacity of the RPS organisation (a judge, speaker etc) and, I think, have already gained the ARPS. I believe some people are actually invited to accept an FRPS.

Quote from the RPS, 'The Fellowship is the highest Distinction of The Royal Photographic Society and recognises original work and outstanding ability in a specialist field.'

You will have stirred up a few Fellows of the RPS with your take on the FRPS Geoff. True that the society does award the distinction to outstanding world reknowned photographers, McCullin, Baily, Parr () etc. and to Presidents of the Society if they have not achieved the required standard.

Those that are awarded the distinction without a submission can put Hon.FRPS after their name.

We have five FRPS's in our club, none of them sit on any committee or belong to any exectutive section of the RPS, they are just club members that have achieved what they set out to do, and they would be horrified to think that their efforts were regarded as a result of 'long service' not their determination to achieve the necessary standards of excellence that is required!

It has always been part of the club's culture to actively encourages members to try for both the LRPS and ARPS and it runs an advisory group to help those that want to try to achieve those distinctions, this advisory group comprises those that have already achieved those distinctions plus a couple of 'Fellows'. There must be a couple of dozen LRPS's and a dozen or so ARPS's currently as club members.

P.S. None of the five FRPS's are professional photographers nor as far as I can ascertain have any inclination to be!

[AndyStevens]

Thanks Geoff, I hadn't realised the RPS Forum was open to non-members, will have to take a look. And I'm thinking of joining the Wimborne club who seem to have quite a few LRPS people on board. And her to Shaftesbury is a great location for a club, plenty of great views to get out and shoot.

I think if/when I do the RPS thing, I'll only be happy when I've made ARPS - not saying I think I'm good enough yet, just never been happy at 'entry level' in Nything I've ever done

ABERS, interesting about your non-pro FRPS members considering the comments made to me by pros. Good effort though to make that standard just out of determination and personal satisfaction.

[F11]

I personally find that the more I look at my images the more I get dissatisfied with them. I start off thinking that they might be good and then after all the anaylsing and seeing if they perhaps they have got the x factor I feel they are crap. If I just looked at them for what they are "a moment captured in time" or a place, an experience, a portrait of a loved one etc., I would be a happy photographer. But oh no after spending the last 6 years improving my technical knowledge and progressing at least 80%, I feel I'm on brain overload. If photographers want to convey a meaning that's fine but so very often it is an inner thing for that person and not recognised by the masses. Am I starting not enjoy my photography so much, I'm sad to say that perhaps this is the case. Some images convey a natural message but I wouldn't go out of my way to create something obscure that conveys something.

[GeoffWessex]

Sorry I got some of the FRPS things wrong, ABERS. And well done to people who have made to FRPS purely by the quality of their work.

F11 ...... I think everybody feels the same about their work at some point. We want to move on faster and achieve the kinds of things that have inspired us. I expect most of us could 'emulate' our heroes' work, but that's not the same as being original and creative - which is what most of us strive for. You're not alone.... best to take your own route, photograph what pleases you. If others like it, so much the better.

[Cathus]

The thing that puts me off the RPS stuff is that you are only allowed to use the letters if you pay the annual fee, as soon as you cease paying you cease entitlement.

The other umbrella organisations allow you to keep your achievements whether you remain a member or not, so I understand.

Seems an expensive way to display letters after your name.