First DSLR - extremely confused

[snowfruit]

Hi all, can I just say in advance, thank you for your help.

My dilema: last summer I finally indulged my interest in photography and bought a Fujifilm s1800 'superzoom' compact and I've had great fun taking photographs with that for hte last six months and because it has many of the same controls a 'proper' SLR does I've also learned a lot. But, sooner than I had hoped, I seem to have outgrown this camera and am getting increasingly frustrated by its limitations (max exposure of 8 seconds, no RAW, no manual focus to name my most frequent road blocks - although for some one wanting a bit more than a compact, I'd recommend this camera wholeheartedly). So I'm in the market for a DSLR.

As I'm still exploring the wonderful world of photography I don't have a particular style or genre that I stick to, but I like to have a go at everything. So far I've done quite a bit of macro, long exposure and night time shots. I've spent a lot of time in aperture and shutter priority modes and, more recently (I use the camera every day at least a couple of times), have the dial set to manual.

I've spent since Christmas reading magazines and trawling this site as well as dpreview.com and it's driving me insane. Every time I think I've found the camera that suits my current needs but isn't too 'beginner'/restrictive (I dont want to be back in this position again come next summer) I find another model that seems to do more for a different price, or an older version that does much the same.

I don't really have a preference for any make, but do tend towards Nikon and Canon (in that order) over Pentax and Sony (and I've read very little about Olympus' cameras) mainly because of the choice of models, their high ratings by reviewers and the range extras I can tap into later on.

Unfortunately my budget tends towards the very low end, I really couldn't justify spending more than a maximum of £400 (I've been trawling ebay and any site I can find that does secondhand/refurbished models). In order of todays preference below are the models I keep going back to:

Nikon D90 (tends to be outside of my budget, but it's so highly spoken of...)
Nikon D5000 (poor(er) man's D90?)
Canon 550D (again hard to find in my budget)
Canon 500D (much different from the 550D? and I have actually used one and not been dissapointed)
Nikon D3100 (seems well specced, but unsure wether I'll outgrow this too quickly)
Canon 450D (much different from a 500D, or is it getting a bit too old?)
Pentax K-x (too beginner?)
Canon 1000D (really dont know much about this model)

Can any of you suggest any I should knock off my list, (better yet) an absolute favourite or (god forbid) any other models I should look at?

Please help get my brain back into some sort of order.

Thanks again for you (future) help.

Owen

[OldBoy]

You need extra money for a lens when buying secondhand, as most are bodies only.

The best camera secondhand is Nikon D200 at about £399, and the only downside is low light, but not a problem if you restrict the ISO to 800. You could couple it with Used Nikon Nikkor 18-105mm F3.5/5.6 G ED AF-S VR DX at £149 both from Mifsuds.

http://www.mifsuds.com/acatalog/Used_Nikon_AF.html

[Sue Allen]

The first, and often repeated, fact is that there are'nt any really bad DSLRs amongst those released in the past 2 or 3 years - it tends to be a case of which has the features you really want, which handles best for you and which make has the best lens selection for future buying.
I've actually used the Nikon models you mention - the D90 might be the oldest but for me is still the best. Don't be put off by its meagre mp - it is a camera you would'nt quickly outgrow and has the advantage over the other 2 of having in body af motor - loads more lenses will af on the D90 over the D5000 or D3100. I was a bit disappointed by the D5000 - not quite sure why. The D3100 is small, great image quality and easy to use - annoying way of moving the af point though.
If I was going for a cheap s/hand Canon I'd try for a 40D,again from personal use - you do sometimes see them about at a reasonable cost.
I should really recommend Pentax as I'm now using one but I don'tn know too much about the other models they do. K-X has a great reputation for image quality though. These days the Olympus DSLR system could be thought of as a bit of a dead end but they do make good well featured cameras and their kit lenses are among the best you can get. No idea about Sony - never been tempted!

So, from your list .... D90

[rbarry]

Hi Owen and welcome.

The amount you spend now on a DSLR will pale into insignificance compared to the amount you will spend, and believe me you will, on lenses and accessories in the future.

The decision you make on brand choice now, will determine the type of lenses you buy in the future. A lens will outlive a camera body many times over, so it's wise to make that brand choice and stick with it in the future as lenses are only compatible with like branded camera bodies. Change the camera body brand and you have to change all your lenses too. It seems your preference really lies between Nikon and Canon, but as Sue Allen wrote, there aren't any bad DSLR camera bodies these days. If you are unsure what to buy, go to a high street retailer and handle the goods. Why not take a compatible memory card with you and look at the results back home if you can. However, the results will be determined by your own skill and the quality of the lens used. Your decision should be based on the research you have already done, and the "feel" you have for handling the camera, button layout, ergonomics etc.

To further complicate matters, image sensors come in different sizes within the range of same brand camera bodies, and certain incompatibilities exist that allow full frame sensor designed lenses to be used universally, but apsc (smaller sensor) versions can only be used for bodies with those smaller sized sensors and not full frame bodies.

Most members here will give you recommendations based on what they bought, and I am no exception. My bias is for Canon as I like the brand and have a collection of Canon lenses. I started with a Canon 400D and loved that camera, it really suited me based on the reasoning I gave earlier. I have upgraded that camera for a Canon 550D as I thought it was a big enough step up from previous models to give greater comparative longevity, when considering the tech spec this camera has to offer.


I will leave you with two schools of thought that should/may help you in coming to a decision:

1. Buy a second hand three or four year old camera body for under £200.00. Get to know the techniques that are needed to produce the images you want to capture. The difference in camera bodies then and now are marginal in terms of use and application. The money you save can be used to build up an accessory and lens collection that can be used on the next body you buy. When you do come to sell this body on, you may sell some kit with it too: you may have upgraded lenses in increments of quality rather than just scope, and some are superflous to requirement (this will happen too!).

2. Go the extra mile and buy right up to or even slightly over your budget to future proof yourself for a while, and get to know that camera and kit lens.

It seems you have a good grasp already of moving away from automated image taking and to take the next step into semi or fully manual control. This opens up such great possibilities and will lead you on to a long and rewarding addiction, sorry meant to say hobby. Like any addiction though, it comes at a price so be warned!

Whatever brand choice you make will be the right one for you, and I'm sure whatever that choice is you won't regret it.

All the best,

Rick.

[ianpinion]

Hello Owen and welcome to the forums. You are not alone when it comes to choosing which camera to go for as you step up from a compact to a DSLR. There is just a mind boggling choice of decent cameras, with the right level of spec for your needs for you to select from and everyone in your position is in the same boat. Just where do you start?

Well from what you describe you want to be looking at what is termed as an 'Enthusiasts' level camera, meaning it's has a few more features than an entry level camera, but not as complicated as a Semi Pro model. As has already been mentioned, each of the major camera manufacturers produce at least one model in this category and in the right hands they are all equally capable of producing fantastic images.

So set yourself a budget and stick to it, remembering that you need to leave yourself sufficient funds for the lenses and other accessories you need too! Take a look at how much this will cost both for new and secondhand for each model in this sector. Cross off any models that are either too expensive or too poorly specified or you can't the extra kit you'll need for and hopefully you'll be left with about three models to look at. The next step is to handle each model on your shortlist to see if you like the layout of the buttons and dials, the menu system and how well balanced it feels in your hands. This process really helps to weed out the wheat from the chaff because you will find that one model will have an edge over the others. Once you've found the camera that ticks all the right boxes for you, then have a shop around to find yourself the best overall deal from a reputable establishment, buy it and enjoy!

The one thing any of us fellow forums members can do is choose a camera for you because I'll guarantee that each of us have different wants and needs to each other and more importantly you! Only you can decide which camera will best suit your needs within the budget you have. So before you go any further make sure you understand fully what your needs are and then you won't make any mistakes. The other thing to remember is, as has already been pointed out is that you want to invest far more of your budget into lenses than your camera bodies, but if you need to upgrade either, then consider selling what you don't need, to help finance the upgrade.

[Meeerkat]

Owen,
I am usually a Canon man because there build quality and they range from beginner to pro, so my first DSLR was the 1000D's bigger brother 450D which is identical apart from the mega pixels. Well I found that I really did have a large learning curve even though i mastered the compact cameras, so don't be afraid to go for an entry level camera, these will be dead cheap and you can also buy different lenses to go with them. Eventually you will undoubtedly grow out of it and all you have to do is buy a new body. So i think that the most important thing is to scout out which brand you want to go for.

[matt wilson]

just to reiterate what others say.

I went canon with a 50 d .I then bought my partner a 1000 d .(second hand boxed and never used )

I have invested a lot in lenses .

If I put my lenses on the 1000d body then pics can barely be distinguished.

why then did I buy an expensive body .

simple .It was solid ,slightly larger and fitted my hand ,can shoot faster ,can cope better when light levels get low.I won't outgrow it .

If I came into money now (chance would be a fine thing) I would invest it in lenses ..........theoretically the camera body that was the forefront of technology a couple of years ago is outdated .If you are slave to fashion and need the latest kit it will cost ..if you accept that the photo's you get with the kit you have are more than adequate you can get on and enjoy the hobby.

[snowfruit]

Thank you all for your advice. I think I'll stick with either canon or nikon for the abundance of lenses and accessories. And I'll have to keep my eyes open to find a good deal on a body. I don't want to go too old though as the one thing I really want the body to have is Live View, I've got too used to using that on my Fuji.

Question though: re the Nikon 3100 & 5000 how limiting is the lack of in-body AF motor? Does it, in practice, limit the availability of lenses, especially second hand ones or increase the cost significantly?

[Sue Allen]

There are a few old Nikkors that you can't use on modern DSLRs but other than that you can fit old lenses to any of the current crop. So if you're happy to focus manually on occasion it's not that limiting. Most focal lengths are available with AF-S or third party options such as Sigma HSM. It's limiting in af terms if you fancy some of the cheaper primes such as the 50mm f1.8. I'd definitely recommend the D3100 in terms of image quality and handling [if you like smallish cameras] - it was mainly the way it was so easy to alter the focus point that really niggled me.

A few D3100 snaps here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greypoi...7625040564387/

[Tom Peppiatt]

get a canon what ever one :]