CHAT Thread - W/e comp 5-7 Feb 2010 - "Collection"

[flake]

Ah I hope it didn't read that I think that people who had voted for terriks image had voted badly, that was just a critique, however not so very long ago a member did leave with the comment that people were voting for 'names'. I have to admit that I can understand his frustration, especially when images as flawed as the graveyard are voted into second place.

I think I agree with you that it is a photograph competition in truest sense of the amateur word not a photographic competition, because people simply don't have the ability to look at images and criticise them effectively. That's hard for me because I can't seperate the creation of images from being able to deconstruct them. When any of us sets up a camera for a shot, we should be thinking of the image we want to create, and how we are going to do that, after the image in on the PC we can assess how well it meets that original idea. Of course in a photo competition the original idea is going to be judged, but also we should be looking at other factors such as exposure depth of field, etc etc. The image should be judged as a whole not simply as one part, because if all we do is look at the 'WOW factor' then we are no better at judging than the Lady Mayoress who is judging a photo competition without any real knowledge, and selecting what appeals.

It's a plea to people to look at images for a little longer, including their own, to find the faults, and judge accordingly. In taking the time to learn you not only make a more considered decision, but improve your own photography by not making the errors in your images.

We do all have our views, and we will all weight the various factors differently, however, if we produced a scoresheet, then all the objective elements of an image from each voter should be more or less the same.

[flake]

I think that Jinkys shot was fine for composition, and I also think if it hadn't been for his accident he'd have visited at a different time of day, however the shot you have posted as a comparator was not part of the competiton, if this had been converted to black & white it would have been very different, and the photographer was constrained by the sign which necessarily forms the main part of the image, so it's difficult to comment.

Given those constraints the photographer has done a good job keeping the foreground and mid points in sharp focus, and the exposure and white balance all seem good enough.

[Cutter]

flake I totally agree with what you have said toward the bottom of your reply, and we should all be aware of what we are looking for in order to improve our skill . I dont want to be a Mayoress


: I quote Of course in a photo competition the original idea is going to be judged, but also we should be looking at other factors such as exposure depth of field, etc etc. The image should be judged as a whole not simply as one part, because if all we do is look at the 'WOW factor' then we are no better at judging than the Lady Mayoress who is judging a photo competition without any real knowledge, and selecting what appeals.

It's a plea to people to look at images for a little longer, including their own, to find the faults, and judge accordingly. In taking the time to learn you not only make a more considered decision, but improve your own photography by not making the errors in your images.

We do all have our views, and we will all weight the various factors differently, however, if we produced a scoresheet, then

Well Flake as one who voted for Paul's (and as he puts it, tame shot) it was actually more than just the humour in words that drew my attention. Sure the image is strongly backlit (but there are some nice bits of grey mid tones picking up the horizontal sections of wire detail, while the vertical sections of fencing are almost lost) and for me any lack in mid tones, just adds to the whole sense of dead pan punch within the shot; with the B&W aspect being quite final in play behind the lit horizontals. I actually think this is a rather refreshing photographic view of the subject portrayed, and I like the light catching the finer details in carved granite.

And as for suggesting rightfully that I'm in need of educating myself upon evaluating images; well I appreciate Picasso's work as much as Constable and Turner; as too Sarony and Mendoza, etc.; and I'm constantly trying to learn with every picture I see.

Please pop in and critique my pictures in my gallery Flake - I value all opinion - many thanks

[terrik]

Morning all! Thanks for my votes. Made my day (cos it's a birthday ).

I've set up the next chat thread, off to do entries. Do I sticky them? or someone else? (i only worked out last night how to get email notifications of new messages. bit slow on the uptake of the 'new' site.)

[terrik]

thanks for the critique Flake . i agree, the circle was not circular, but at the time, i just didn't have the wherewithall to reshoot. i just wanted to get back into the swing of the competition and start making visiting the forums part of my regular routine again. (i lapsed in the transition from dcm to here). i honestly didn't think it would be as popular as it was (not complaining people ), and take on all critique with welcome arms.

i voted for jinkyy's because of the whole emotional response. i understand what you are saying Flake about technical qualities of a shot. i guess when i look at photos, i'm seeing art, so for me, there is an emotional quality. i have a picture of my daughter on the wall that is a terrible, terrible shot techinically (underexposed, grainy), but it evokes the essence of her at that time, and reminds me of my own photographic journey and learning curve. i have other shots that while are techinically correct leave me thinking 'meh' . so, for me, it's about impact and emotional repsonse of an image.
having said that, this competition has allowed me to become so much more aware of the technical aspects to photography and helped me improve my work immensely. so, thanks again all. for the votes and critiques.

[flake]

well I appreciate Picasso's work as much as Constable and Turner; as too Sarony and Mendoza, etc.; and I'm constantly trying to learn with every picture I see.

I'm afarid I have not got the first idea of how to criticise art, but when I listen to art critics such as Brian Sewell, or Sister Wendy Beckett, and indeed the experts on the antiques road show, it's surprising how often they come back to technique and the mastery of it, by the great artists. It's more than the picture, it's how it's created, and personally I don't see photography as being any different.

I'm afraid I don't see the 'deadpan' in the graveyard, there aren't any nice bits of midtones (look at the histogram it proves it). If deadpan had been intended a reverse S curve would have been applied, and it hasn't been. It's plain & simple underexposure and shadow clipping. Just out of interest (and if you fancy playing with curves) any shot with a gothic type of look will look fantastic if it's solarised (Sabbatier effect), it's a simple curves effect in photoshop, although this particular one is difficult because of the lack of detail in the shadows.

Can you please tell me where the "light catching the finer details in carved granite." is because every time I look the gravestones are simple slab fronted crosses. The only one with any carving detail is the one on the right with a scroll on the top which again suffers from shadow clipping!

[flake]

Originally Posted by terrik

thanks for the critique Flake . i agree, the circle was not circular, but at the time, i just didn't have the wherewithall to reshoot. i just wanted to get back into the swing of the competition and start making visiting the forums part of my regular routine again. (i lapsed in the transition from dcm to here). i honestly didn't think it would be as popular as it was (not complaining people ), and take on all critique with welcome arms.

i voted for jinkyy's because of the whole emotional response. i understand what you are saying Flake about technical qualities of a shot. i guess when i look at photos, i'm seeing art, so for me, there is an emotional quality. i have a picture of my daughter on the wall that is a terrible, terrible shot techinically (underexposed, grainy), but it evokes the essence of her at that time, and reminds me of my own photographic journey and learning curve. i have other shots that while are techinically correct leave me thinking 'meh' . so, for me, it's about impact and emotional repsonse of an image.
having said that, this competition has allowed me to become so much more aware of the technical aspects to photography and helped me improve my work immensely. so, thanks again all. for the votes and critiques.

HI Terrik
I'm glad you found the critique constructive, which it was how it was intended. The first time I did this shot it was coloured crayons, and so many silly attemts like using a 2p up to the colour of the wood, and not being able to get it out again! Or shooting them for a web page where each colour was supposed to be a different hyperlink, and the client wanted every pencil to look identical (forget photography & turn to photoshop!)

What I'm hoping people will do is to look at there images and be able to assess them - each one especially the competiton entries. All images can be criticised, but once you understand the strengths & weaknesses of your own, then it will help with composition and the way you use the camera. Yes images which are not perfect can affect us, and the quirks can become loved, but they're not competiton entries which should be of a higher standard.

Of course we can make images have certain looks but if we have done that it should be stated so that people know before they make their evaluation.

So well done in your win now all you have to do is pick a subject and set up that poll! Good luck ! LOL

I appreciate what you are saying Flake.
Yet, it's the impurity in the Oyster that makes the pearl. And however good or bad a photograph may or may not be, I hope I will always enjoy the full spectrum (and effects) of light recorded through the lens.

[jinky]

Well - I look in for 5 minutes to check if there is a weekend theme and see dischord again
I am not going to say much to defend my picture Flake as in essence you are right about aspects of it. bad time of dy for the shot, backlit and yes would oly work in black and white. Partly why I converted it but also to fit the mood of it. It was a rushed entry of a shot that I spent 5 minutes processing at a difficult time when I felt well enough to try to enter at around 11.45 on Monday morning and was the only photo I had taken that I felt could fit within the frame.
I stated myself that it was a fairly lame effort. I knew it would not win but thought as a different slant on the theme and with a bit of humour that might tickle one or two it was worth the brief effort whether anyone voted for it or not. Let`s face it 4 votes behind an impressive winner that romped it is neither here nor there. The suggestion seems to be that others don`t know what to look for / vote for! I find that attitude is on a par with some of the figures featuring in your fine entry this weekend Flake - when we start dictating the vote we are in trouble!
For me, as stated elsewhere, the skill elements of taking the photograph must meet with interpretation of the theme and that is just as important - otherwise it is worthless setting the theme. You obviously think differently to me and I do not knock that - it is your valid opinion. I`d ike to see how you judge photographs more often but it is unfortunate that, having entered 5/6 times yourself you have only felt compelled to vote on two occasions and one of those was for your own entry! Well done to Purplegurl for getting a vote from you - who knows in future weeks I might get one technically right and meeting the theme that encourages you even to vote for me. I don`t think it fair to criticise how others vote though and an up and down review with your technical approach might be more useful than merely taking potshots at random shots and the clear winner.

With that I`ll retire from the screen once more and try to think of an indoor valentine shot without red!!! Good luck to all