Mass Photo Gathering

[HinFrance]

One of the reasons I left the yUK nearly ten years ago was that I perceived that the Police had become an enemy of the people. I know that sounds really 'heavy', and I guess it is. But I was fed up with looking over my shoulder all the time just going about my normal business. Your current government has created more than 3500 new criminal offences since it came to power. One has to ask how much once perfectly safe and acceptable behaviour has now become criminalised.

And at the same time they have installed more than half of all the CCTV cameras in Europe to watch you. They fine you for leaving rubbish bin lids open, arrest children for criminal damage for marking a hopscotch grid on a pavement, prosecute victims defending themselves in preference to the perpetrators of robbery, intimidation and violence. In short they have become petty and vindictive. If the Gendarmes here behaved in the same arrogant and mindless way that Her Majesty's Constabulary in the yUK do their barracks would be permanently on fire.

It seems that as time goes by the situation just gets worse and worse. About the time that I left for France, my best friends from school (one of whom was a policeman, but resigned in despair) also left the yUK permanently. We are only half joking when we speak and remark that the most used word in the yUK nowadays is 'NO!' Indeed 'NO!' is just about guaranteed to the be the first word any visitor to the yUK sees, whether arriving by sea or air. It will be followed by a description of some hitherto innocuous activity that is forbidden for some politically correct reason nobody thought to challenge as being complete nonsense. The next time you venture out, see how many signs you can spot prohibiting one thing or another. Not just in the street, but in pubs, shops, your place of work. Most prohibitions will usually be followed by a threat if I recall.

But hey, it's all for your own good.

[chris-p]

Originally Posted by HinFrance

One of the reasons I left the yUK nearly ten years ago was that I perceived that the Police had become an enemy of the people. I know that sounds really 'heavy', and I guess it is. But I was fed up with looking over my shoulder all the time just going about my normal business. Your current government has created more than 3500 new criminal offences since it came to power. One has to ask how much once perfectly safe and acceptable behaviour has now become criminalised.

And at the same time they have installed more than half of all the CCTV cameras in Europe to watch you. They fine you for leaving rubbish bin lids open, arrest children for criminal damage for marking a hopscotch grid on a pavement, prosecute victims defending themselves in preference to the perpetrators of robbery, intimidation and violence. In short they have become petty and vindictive. If the Gendarmes here behaved in the same arrogant and mindless way that Her Majesty's Constabulary in the yUK do their barracks would be permanently on fire.

It seems that as time goes by the situation just gets worse and worse. About the time that I left for France, my best friends from school (one of whom was a policeman, but resigned in despair) also left the yUK permanently. We are only half joking when we speak and remark that the most used word in the yUK nowadays is 'NO!' Indeed 'NO!' is just about guaranteed to the be the first word any visitor to the yUK sees, whether arriving by sea or air. It will be followed by a description of some hitherto innocuous activity that is forbidden for some politically correct reason nobody thought to challenge as being complete nonsense. The next time you venture out, see how many signs you can spot prohibiting one thing or another. Not just in the street, but in pubs, shops, your place of work. Most prohibitions will usually be followed by a threat if I recall.

But hey, it's all for your own good.

My thoughts entirely.

[chris-p]

The situation is quite clearly ridiculous, mainly because one arm of the Police doesn't know what the other is doing.

For example...

The Met are issuing advice, telling people that if they are likely to be taking lots of pictures in and around central London they should carry some form of identification so that, in the event of a stop & search being initiated by a PC or PCSO they can easily identify themselves. On the other hand, the Association of Cheif Police Officers (ACPO) say that you don't need to carry ID, something which actively disagrees with the advise being proffered by the Met.

Under s44 of the Terrorism Act (2000), the piece of legislation that gives the Police the power to stop and search anyone suspected of being involved in terrorism or terrorist activities etc, you do not have to give your name, address, date of birth, DNA or an explanation of why you are there and where you are going.

Under s44, the PC or PCSO is allowed to detain you for the duration of a search which includes being patted down, removal of outer clothing, removal of any item which they feel you are using to conceal your identity, search your pockets, search your vehicle and anyone in it and seize any article they suspect is "intended" to be used "in connection with terrorism".

So, according to the law you don't need to identify yourself. According to the ACPO you don't need to identify yourself. So why do the Met recommend you carry ID?

Personally I find it difficult to have faith in a system where the arbitrators of the law don't know the law.

[Gil Ritchie]

In response to the VIVE LA FRANCE outburst and Anti British Establishment attitudes shown here - the following should be noted - and noted carefully :-

Maybe I am older than most to remember when the French authorities were not quite so "perfect" - some interesting links to the 1960s - when the French Police were "killing citizens" and given protection from prosecution whilst doing so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_massacre_of_1961

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968_in_France

Maybe our British Police are not quite so bad - after all.

I maybe spend lots of time out of the country (UK) - only because of the "lousey" British weather may I add - not because of any "perceived to be" oppressive law enforcement agencies and their implementing any "perceived to be " overpowering, restrictive Laws - not at all - I am always glad to return to the UK and its inherent "democratic freedoms" - God help us if we ever lose sight of these - hard fought for - "freedoms".

So as photographers we may be inconvenienced somewhat from time to time by being "stopped and searched" in crowded urban situations - situations where the threat of terrorism and other violent actions are indeed an ever present REAL threat - so what - we "complain" of injustice, civil rights, etc, etc !?!?! - big deal - would we rather be subjected to the indiscrimate violence that undoubtedly pervades every society - think on- without a "vigilant" police force to prevent this violence from emerging - where would we be - think on again - I for one - cherish the freedom and protection our LAWS and LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENGIES afford the vast majority of our British citizens and Foreign visitors alike - so LONG LIVE BRITISH DEMOCRACY.

But isn't this weather terrible Ah well - off to Spain for the weekend for some sunshine.

[HinFrance]

France isn't perfect, nowhere is. It's just significantly better. But that is only my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

Today, for example, our local mayor vetoed the installation of traffic cameras on the grounds that they were unnecessary and obtrusive. The government, he said, have no right to tell us country folk what to do. Bless him. To be honest he's a bit of an idiot, but who cares?

I was the only one of the three of us who moved to France, the others went to South Africa.

British Democracy? That's where the government is elected by less than 25% of the voters, where foreign electricians are shot 7 times in the head at point blank range for looking a bit funny and all the CCTV footage disappears, where its citizens are kidnapped by Somali pirates under the eyes of the armed forces who do nothing to prevent it. Where the CRU is caught fiddling data and then concealing the evidence but the CSO says it doesn't mean they weren't telling the truth. Sorry, it's sad, but it's long past its sell by date.

French democracy on the other hand has much more shallow entertainment value, like Sarkozy and Villepin endlessly slagging each other off and in the process doing stuff all. Politicians who achieve nothing, they're the best sort.

Take some nice snaps on your break, won't you Gil.