CHAT "MOTION" Weekend Competitiion 12th/13th December 2009

[flake]

Photography or Photographic competition?

Before I start this I want to make it clear that no criticism of any entrant is intended, in fact there is absolutely no intention to on my part.

There are many photography competitions around where people send their images to be judged, and that is basically what happens, the judges look no further than the image in front of them 'is it a pretty picture'. Then there are photographic competitions where a photographers abilities are judged, what techniques have been used is the image sharp etc.

This particular competition doesn't seem to know what it is though with people appearing to vote simply because they like the image, others because they appreciate the techniques of the photographer. Personally I prefer the latter, anyone can point a camera at a scene and snap away until one image turns out good, in my opinion. I guess it's a bit like listening to two pianists at a competition and then voting for one because you like the tune they're playing, I'd rather hear the technique even if the piece is untuneful.

I'd like to see a little more cohesion in the way votes are cast, because at the moment it's like a scattergun approach, I'm really struggling to understand why 'Human motion' is a winning entry when 'Race motion' failed to attract a single vote? (No criticism of either intended)

[jinky]

But isn`t that the thing about photography competitions flake - you never know what the people judging are basing their opinion on? Llook at the DC Mag POTY discussions over the last few years and indeed in any competition. We all see different things in an image and we all vote differently. I did not vote for either Human or Race Motion but mentioned both in my review. Bob`s was excellent technically and gave a real flavour of the game but didn`t get my vote because I wanted to see motion actually in the image. Race motion was equally close to getting my vote because it was a good panning shot but not quite there for me as it was going out of the frame, away from the viewer and needed a different angle. I was the only one who voted for ogga`s picture and did so because I liked the movement shown in it and I suppose was looking at flash technique and appreciating it because I had been trying similar things recently.

The realty is we all look for different things and vote accordingly- so to call for consistency is fruitless as we are not all clones thinking in the same way.
What surprises me most Flake is that given your opinions on needing to vote consistently you failed to vote at all this week from a glance at the poll. I think all participants should at least show support by voting. Were none of the images put up worthy of your vote? If so I don`t know what standards you are looking for as I could have voted for any one of 4-6 shots in what was a fairly strong field.

Also why not give us your views by an above and below review and tell us about the technical aspects - I for one miss fizzio`s reviews when we had this technical / fun review at the same time but lack the skill / confidence to do such a task I feel. I am sure no-ne woudl object to yor giving us a run down on technical aspectsof each image and explaining what it is you see in the images - including what you were attempting in your own.

[bsmith]

flake, sorry our voting does not meet with your standards, but as already said you didn't cast a vote yourself, its the least you could have done after taking part, this is a fun competition with the potential to help us try different things and learn how to use our kit and imagination in different ways. Please don't let the standards put you off taking part, the more the merrier in my opinion. There is no prize for winnining its all about using your camera and engaging with fellow enthusiasts in a no pressure environment, it could be your looking for something run on a professional level, we're just a bunch of people doing what we enjoy so please take it in that manner.

Bob

[flake]

I didn't vote because for some strange reason the poll wouldn't allow me to! In fact it actually said 'you may not vote on this poll'!

And it's not about voting meeting any standards mine or otherwise (how did I know someone would inevitably get a bit upset). It's more a piece to try to make people think a little more about why they do vote for a particular image, not just vote for the prettiest picture. While there are plenty of competitions judged by non photographers which do exactly that I'd like to see something a little more 'enthusiast' oriented.

I was perhaps trying to suggest that while there is skill and technique in creating an image, there should be care & judgement excercised in voting too. After all there is I believe a skill involved in assessing other peoples images, why shouldn't we look to using this, to help people develop another skill?

[jinky]

Flake , don`t worry I was not upset by your comments - just confused re: views / expectations. Weird you could not vote but hopefully it will work next time and just use your own yardstick to measure by and vote accordingly - your opinion is as valid as anyone elses.
I would say the reviews we give allows us to explain our thoughts on a picture and ,if you add it ,why you vote for one shot over another also helps people understand what others look for in an image. I agree with you that people should consider how they vote - I just differ I think in feeling that is what people on here already do! It`s just that soemtimes their thinking might not coincide with what you or me think - please let life always be such or it would be a boring world

PS I am sure Bob`s not upset either but he can talk for himself.

[oggalily]

Flake, as mentiioned by jinky and Bob I don't think it's feasible or evan advisable to encourage people to apply a particular checklist of criteria when voting. I don't think that's what you're after anyway, just a better understanding of why people vote the way they do and perhaps a call for people to consider how well the image fits the brief as part of their voting.

The up and down reviews serve several purposes and I encourage all entrants to have a go. Firstly it encourages reviews for all images rather than just the favourites, which is essential for newcomers looking for feedback or those who may not understand why they haven't received votes. Secondly it encourages the reviewers' critical faculties, as it asks them to think about pictures that may not have immediately grabbed them and define (in a constuctive way) what they think could be improved as well as what they like. And finally for everyone else it allows them to revisit a picture through someone else's eyes. I often find that a reviewer points out aspects of a picture which I didn't originally see or appreciate.

As for the two pictures you mention, it's sometimes the case that a picture which is thought-provoking/funny/interesting/technically excellent will poll well despite not meeting the brief as well as some other entires. Whatever the emotional response that is triggered is a personal thing and surely more than "prettiest". Since I didn't vote for Bob's I'm not going to presume why other people did. Regarding the cyclist photo I agree with jinky's analysis - good panning and excellent match to the brief, but with some compositional shortcomings. In particular I would point out the puddle at the bottom - a good opportunity for a reflection that may have added interest but there is not enough of it in the frame to do so effectively (for me).

Anyway, it's good to have a little bit of debate to liven up the chat thread.

[bsmith]

nope! not upset in any way, I do hope people think rather than just tick a box. Sometimes an image can be technically spot on but is badly composed or the subject is just not worth photographing, other times an attractive subject is not quite right technically, its surely up to you to decide which way to vote.

The alternative is a contest for technically correct images and one for pretty images and it starts to get silly

PS who were you going to vote for.

Bob

[flake]

I think what I'm asking for is perhaps an application of an objective element as to technical merits, and appraisal of the difficulty of the techniques involved in the production of the image, and then a subjective - does it fit the brief, before an artistic appraisal.

I do think that judging other peoples images and appraising them is a skill, and that there seems to be very little discussion about it, let alone hints tips advice etc etc. I don't agree with the premise that it's simply one persons choice, in simplisitic terms of course it is, but that choice should be reached by some systematic appraial rather than a gut feeling. For instance if an image is not sharp or out of focus, everyone voting should be able to recognise that and include it in the appraisal of that image, how much weight each person gives it may vary, but they should as a minimum be aware of it.

If it's accepted by others than judging is a skill worth paying a little attention to, then isn't it desireable to share the knowledge that we have amongst us in an effort to improve everyones abilities?? One day one of us might be asked to judge a prize competition!

[matt wilson]

Many thanks for the info Beaux..Afraid I won't be able to enter next competiton as away from Friday .

[chris-p]

This has turned into a rather interesting discussion. I get your point Flake and I think it's a valid one.

For me, the main reason I enter these competitions is because they make me think and try to shoot with a purpose. I also like the crit I receive because it comes from different perspectives. Personally I tend to vote differently each time as it depends on the image. If I think the most accomplished (for want of a better word) is the most accomplished because of it's artistic style then I vote for that one. If it's because of technical merit then I vote for that one.

Voting and crit is a personal thing and technical ability isn't the be all and end all of a good image but it's a very significant part of it. I try to take as much as possible into account when I vote and I hope that others do as well.