A fair review

[markgozz]

Hi Karen

I really hope that I haven't offended you because that was not my intention , I know that you have been short listed and it was a mistake to single out the photographer of the year comp but I had no kind of conspiracy theory in mind just a general theory that it might be human nature to take other elements into account when reviewing images in a competition when the photographers are known .

Thank you very much for coming back to me and posting your reply , and I would like to repeat that I wasn't casting any doubt over the professionalism of any one or group of people .

I know that you don't what to say any more on this subject but if I can answer one of your points in your removed post , yes why not ask that established photographer to exhibit under an alias to see if he or she gets a different response surely it could only be a good thing .


Cathus

Thank you for being able to put into words what I'm trying to say .

Mark

[OldBoy]

It's a good point that you raise Mark. It's well known that Ronnie Barker sent in scripts under the pseudonym Gerald Wiley which, the two Ronnies did to great success, to avoid pre-judgement of his talent. In 2006, Flickr user Andre Rabelo submitted a photo to the group pool DeleteMe!, a group whoes members vote on photos to vote out any that aren't "incredible pictures, amazing, perfect". The photograph was by Henri Cartier-Bresson. Their verdicts weren't very complimentary to say the least.

http://www.petapixel.com/2011/07/13/...nline-critics/

[GeoffWessex]

Thinking about the importance of anonymity in judging and critique, I'm glad to say that, in all our club's competitions and selections, the anonymity factor is vital.... none of the judges (all of whom are non-members) can see any names of the entrants. And yet some members do well time and time again..... must be true justice, I suppose.

But I'd love to put some 'classic' photographs into one of our club competitions! The odd Cartier-Bresson, Ansel Adams, Bill Brandt etc. And oh what fun to hear what they'd say about an Eggleston or even a Martin Parr!

[Cathus]

Geoff, same here with our club. We used to vote internally on competitions, 6 senior members awarded scores, there was always suspicions that the judges favoured some established members.

We went over to external judges who do not know our work. It is interesting to see the spread of opinions on our work and the differing viewpoints from different judges on the same picture, which can be quite wide apart on their appreciation or otherwise of a photo.

[GeoffWessex]

For competitions, our three judges see our images (both projected and prints) and have a little home-made gadget they can operate to show on an illuminated panel to indicate their scores to the controller - and those scores can only be seen by that controller. They can each score from 2 to 9. If there's a difference of more than four points between any two judges, which is rare, the image will come up again at the end and the panel are asked to reconsider their scores - in theory they could give the same points as in the first try but in practice they almost always come closer together. If they are the same, then that score remains.

Having a little sway in the club now, I've insisted that the panels comprise one person from the general 'art' world, one photo expert (local shop or pro) and one other (from almost any background). You'd expect that to come up with big differences in scoring but it's surprising how rarely their scores vary significantly.

[Cathus]

We have one external judge whom we pay for their services and rotate judges over the year. In theory you could get to learn what each judge favours and submit work accordingly but I'm not sure anyone actually does that, I certainly can't remember them from one year to the next.

I prefer to submit 4 different types of photo so that if they don't like one particular genre they might like the others rather than hope they like sports for instance and submit 4 sports shots.

I've managed to win all 3 silver cups this year (colour print, mono print and digital image) so I must be doing something right, but one judge gave me the second and 5th lowest scores of the comp (out of about 50 shots) and I didn't get in the top 10 for the first time in 12 comps throughout the year, I like to think he was just a rubbish judge!

[karenoliver]

Originally Posted by markgozz

Hi Karen

I really hope that I haven't offended you because that was not my intention , I know that you have been short listed and it was a mistake to single out the photographer of the year comp but I had no kind of conspiracy theory in mind just a general theory that it might be human nature to take other elements into account when reviewing images in a competition when the photographers are known .

Thank you very much for coming back to me and posting your reply , and I would like to repeat that I wasn't casting any doubt over the professionalism of any one or group of people .

I know that you don't what to say any more on this subject but if I can answer one of your points in your removed post , yes why not ask that established photographer to exhibit under an alias to see if he or she gets a different response surely it could only be a good thing .


Cathus

Thank you for being able to put into words what I'm trying to say .

Mark

Hi Mark,

Of course not :-) , sorry I never got back to you sooner.

Karen

[markgozz]

I find it fascinating reading your descriptions of how your respective clubs run their competitions I had no idea that these things were run like this at club level , being relatively new to photography I'm quite naïve about how these clubs work .
Perhaps I should take the time to find out if there are any clubs in my local area and make some inquiries into what they do .

Thank you all very much for your comments



Karen Thanks .


Mark

[GeoffWessex]

Camera Clubs - Suffolk? Here you go, Mark. A good camera club can motivate, teach and inform - and you can make a lot of contacts. Most clubs allow potential members to come along to a couple of meetings before deciding to join, so it may be worth trying out a few of them closest to you, then sticking with one (or two).

[markgozz]

Cheers Geoff ,

I've already started to look through some of the club websites to get a taste of what they offer .

Thanks again for your time

Mark