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  #11  
Old 27-10-09, 12:29 AM
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Even a D3 will give noise at higher shutter speeds on ISO 6400, but at a lower speed it will be almost noiseless. Not sure what shutter speed you are using but try 500/s or 250/s and let the camera set the ISO and see what effect that has.
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  #12  
Old 27-10-09, 10:05 AM
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Ok will try 500/s will that be fast enough to capture a golf swing without to much bluring?
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  #13  
Old 27-10-09, 10:53 AM
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Ok will try 500/s will that be fast enough to capture a golf swing without to much bluring?
If your panning is good you could get away with 125/s or slower.
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  #14  
Old 29-10-09, 09:46 PM
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Photography is full of trade offs, don't forget an SLR set up is a system, and like any system unless the components are balanced there will be a bottleneck in performance, currently that bottleneck is your lens. Bright light will allow you to have a fast shutter speed with an aperture of F4, quite why it was shot at iso1600 i can't quite fathom, was the light poor?
Also don't rely on auto set it to manual get used to your camera its certainly a capable body, try a variety of settings soon you will build up a good knowledge and it will become second nature.
Also, are you shooting RAW files, they contain more data and when converted have less noise. If you have any examples of your shots post them here so we have a better idea of your troubles.
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  #15  
Old 30-10-09, 11:47 AM
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Thanks to everyone I am fiinally begining to understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifecapture View Post
Photography is full of trade offs, don't forget an SLR set up is a system, and like any system unless the components are balanced there will be a bottleneck in performance, currently that bottleneck is your lens. Bright light will allow you to have a fast shutter speed with an aperture of F4, quite why it was shot at iso1600 i can't quite fathom, was the light poor?
Also don't rely on auto set it to manual get used to your camera its certainly a capable body, try a variety of settings soon you will build up a good knowledge and it will become second nature.
Also, are you shooting RAW files, they contain more data and when converted have less noise. If you have any examples of your shots post them here so we have a better idea of your troubles.
Thanks Lifecapture, I think I have just realised I am asking the camera to do things beyond the norm ie: no tradeoff , the lights been turned on in my brain. I realise now if I want a really fast shutter speed I need light and a low Fstop , if the Fstop cant go low enough for the shutter speed ie:2.8 it will under expose !!! yes? If I want an Fstop say 32 then the shutter speed needs to be open enough for the right amount of light to get through if not you either under or over expose !! Yes?
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  #16  
Old 30-10-09, 12:58 PM
lifecapture lifecapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutter View Post
Thanks Lifecapture, I think I have just realised I am asking the camera to do things beyond the norm ie: no tradeoff , the lights been turned on in my brain. I realise now if I want a really fast shutter speed I need light and a low Fstop , if the Fstop cant go low enough for the shutter speed ie:2.8 it will under expose !!! yes? If I want an Fstop say 32 then the shutter speed needs to be open enough for the right amount of light to get through if not you either under or over expose !! Yes?
Yeah i think you have it, the terminology isnt quite there but your understanding is. What you have to remember is its all to do with light, how you manipulate it is usually deterimined by what they want to achieve, so a freeze frame moment requires a high speed shutter, which means shooting wide open, and unless its summer probably a high ISO. I see nothing wrong shooting at iso1600 on your camera even in the middle of an autumn day. I was shooting landscapes at iso800 last weekend in bright sunlight that was with stopped down lenses and long shutter speeds, we all set up our equipment to achieve our photographic aims, some where there has to be a compromise.
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  #17  
Old 30-10-09, 03:02 PM
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Sort coffee break - time to jump in here again.

Mark, think of a coffee mug (now why does that spring to mind?) into which you have inserted a funnel and are going to pour in 1 litre of hot water. Yes I know, large mug. You pour in this 1 litre and note the time which for arguments sake takes 1 minute. Now you want to halve this time (30 secs) so what do you do - of course, double the size of the funnels hole. End result, the same 1 litre of water but in half the time.

The same applies to light entering the lens. Set f/5.6 on your lens and note (in the viewfinder or display) what shutter speed is being shown which in this example we'll say 1/125 sec. Now, if you decide this is too slow a speed (moving leaves in the wind say) and want a faster speed you need to enlarge the aperture (hole). Open the aperture by one stop and you'll notice that your shutter speed increases, also by one stop. The same amount of light overall enters the lens only you've set about capturing it in a different way.

The question of whether you set Av or Tv on the camera depends both on the subject, but more importantly, the effect you are trying to achieve. Shallow depth of field = large aperture whilst a larger depth of field = a smaller aperture. Remember though, depth of field (DOF) also depends on focal length. Setting f/2.8 with a focal length of 100mm will giver you a very shallow DOF whilst the same aperture setting at 300mm will give you even less DOF.

Grasping these basic principles will allow you to move onto Manual more quickly. Here you can set both Aperture and Shutter speed to your liking although even here the camera will indicate to you how far wrong it thinks you are. Fore instance, setting f/5.6 in manual and then setting f/125 the viewfinder information will indicate either that you are spot on or that you are under or over exposing. Here you have to make the judgement call based on experience.

Also, take note of the histogram but bear in mind that when shooting RAW the histogram is a representation of what the embedded jpeg image looks like so use it only for guidance and don't treat it as gospel. Yes, the lcd image is a jpeg image as RAW data has first to be processed in order to be viewed. What I mean by using the histogram for guidance is that in the case of your tree image (other thread I think) most of the image contains shadows with nothing that one could really call highlights. Therefore the histogram will show most of the detail to the left which you would expect.

One other thing not related to this really. Have you considered setting your camera up so that you can focus using your thumb and meter with your index finger? Going into Custom Functions, scrolling to C Fn IV and setting this to 3 allows you to use the AF-ON button to focus using your thumb whilst a half depressing of the shutter button now only controls the metering and not the focusing as before. This takes a bit of getting used to but once mastered you'll never go back I promise you. It's great for subject such as our Robin friend who keeps bobbing from one branch to the next. Now you can quickly adjust focus using the AF-ON button using your thumb whilst firing the shutter as normal with the index finger. It's not only convenient but overall a lot faster. Using only the shutter button means you keep having to release it followed by a half press to set the focus (and metering) before finally pressing the shutter. In the meantime the little darling has flown off.
That it, coffee break over - back to the grindstone.

Last edited by Forseti; 30-10-09 at 05:54 PM.
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  #18  
Old 30-10-09, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forseti View Post
Sort coffee break - time to jump in here again.

Mark, think of a coffee mug (now why does that spring to mind?) into which you have inserted a funnel and are going to pour in 1 litre of hot water. Yes I know, large mug. You pour in this 1 litre and note the time which for arguments sake takes 1 minute. Now you want to halve this time (30 secs) so what do you do - of course, double the size of the funnels hole. End result, the same 1 litre of water but in half the time.

The same applies to light entering the lens. Set f/5.6 on your lens and note (in the viewfinder or display) what shutter speed is being shown which in this example we'll say 1/125 sec. Now, if you decide this is too slow a speed (moving leaves in the wind say) and want a faster speed you need to enlarge the aperture (hole). Open the aperture by one stop and you'll notice that your shutter speed increases, also by one stop. The same amount of light overall enters the lens only you've set about capturing it in a different way.

The question of whether you set Av or Tv on the camera depends both on the subject, but more importantly, the effect you are trying to achieve. Shallow depth of field = large aperture whilst a larger depth of field = a smaller aperture. Remember though, depth of field (DOF) also depends on focal length. Setting f/2.8 with a focal length of 100mm will giver you a very shallow DOF whilst the same aperture setting at 300mm will give you even less DOF.

Grasping these basic principles will allow you to move onto Manual more quickly. Here you can set both Aperture and Shutter speed to your liking although even here the camera will indicate to you how far wrong it thinks you are. Fore instance, setting f/5.6 in manual and then setting f/125 the viewfinder information will indicate either that you are spot on or that you are under or over exposing. Here you have to make the judgement call based on experience.

Also, take note of the histogram but bear in mind that when shooting RAW the histogram is a representation of what the embedded jpeg image looks like so use it only for guidance and don't treat it as gospel. Yes, the lcd image is a jpeg image as RAW data has first to be processed in order to be viewed. What I mean by using the histogram for guidance is that in the case of your tree image (other thread I think) most of the image contains shadows with nothing that one could really call highlights. Therefore the histogram will show most of the detail to the left which you would expect.

One other thing not related to this really. Have you considered setting your camera up so that you can focus using your thumb and meter with your index finger? Going into Customer Functions, scrolling to C Fn IV and setting this to 3 allows you to use the AF-ON button to focus using your thumb whilst a half depressing of the shutter button now only controls the metering and not the focusing as before. This takes a bit of getting used to but once mastered you'll never go back I promise you. It's great for subject such as our Robin friend who keeps bobbing from one branch to the next. Now you can quickly adjust focus using the AF-ON button using your thumb whilst firing the shutter as normal with the index finger. It's not only convenient but overall a lot faster. Using only the shutter button means you keep having to release it followed by a half press to set the focus (and metering) before finally pressing the shutter. In the meantime the little darling has flown off.
That it, coffee break over - back to the grindstone.
What a great explanation Forseti, its all falling into place now, thanks to you and other members I may take a decent photo one day.
I have done what you said regarding C fn 1V and see how I go on ( didnt even know there was a button there, but it certainly feel better.
How daft I am I was trying to take a photo with a fast shutter speed but wanting alot of Dof, I now realise one determins the other.
Once again thanks for sharing you knowledge with a novice
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  #19  
Old 30-10-09, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifecapture View Post
Yeah i think you have it, the terminology isnt quite there but your understanding is. What you have to remember is its all to do with light, how you manipulate it is usually deterimined by what they want to achieve, so a freeze frame moment requires a high speed shutter, which means shooting wide open, and unless its summer probably a high ISO. I see nothing wrong shooting at iso1600 on your camera even in the middle of an autumn day. I was shooting landscapes at iso800 last weekend in bright sunlight that was with stopped down lenses and long shutter speeds, we all set up our equipment to achieve our photographic aims, some where there has to be a compromise.
Thanks lifecapture you and forseti have helped me no end, I might even start to enjoy it a bit more rather than being frustrated at my results, and as for my terminology your right, I can only just about spell it
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  #20  
Old 01-11-09, 12:15 PM
lifecapture lifecapture is offline
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Originally Posted by Cutter View Post
Thanks lifecapture you and forseti have helped me no end, I might even start to enjoy it a bit more rather than being frustrated at my results, and as for my terminology your right, I can only just about spell it
Thats great i am so glad to hear. We all get frustrated at times when we fail to nail what we see with our beady eyes, but as long as the frustration is part of the experience then its just something we have to chalk up to the learning experience. Whats important is that you enjoy it, i am glad you are having fun, keep us posted and keep posting shots to show us how you are getting on.
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