Dilemma over upgrading camera body and or equipment

[dan123]

Could Change Brands i think, A 5dm2 would be the best choice, but you need all the bits to go with it, Thought about the 7D? Very good camera, and with the price you could invest in some decent Glass, HaVe you thought about bying second hand off ebay, i see very good job lots of gear going on there, for not a silly amount of money,

Canon 5dmk2, 24-70mm £2400
Canon 70-200 F4 L £450
And a Cheepish flashgun for £100 would get you started,

Or

Canon 7d with 15-85 £1700,
Canon 70-200 l F4 £450
or even get the 7d body for 1200 and buy the canon 17-40 l for 500 quid,

soo many choices ian,

Dan

[ianpinion]

Originally Posted by dan123

Could Change Brands i think, A 5dm2 would be the best choice, but you need all the bits to go with it, Thought about the 7D? Very good camera, and with the price you could invest in some decent Glass, HaVe you thought about bying second hand off ebay, i see very good job lots of gear going on there, for not a silly amount of money,

Canon 5dmk2, 24-70mm £2400
Canon 70-200 F4 L £450
And a Cheepish flashgun for £100 would get you started,

Or

Canon 7d with 15-85 £1700,
Canon 70-200 l F4 £450
or even get the 7d body for 1200 and buy the canon 17-40 l for 500 quid,

soo many choices ian,

Dan

Thanks Dan for your reply. The 5D MkII is down on my list of cameras to try, along with the 7D from Canon. However, I'm wondering whether anyone will wade in with say the merits of the Nikon D7000 or D300s in the interest of balance. I know I will have to wait a very long time to hear anyone on this forum standing up for the merits of the Olympus E5.

[amk1977]

I too suspect that you'll be waiting a while before someone can speak of the merits of the E5. Not a particularly frequent choice of camera for a majority of togs. Whether that says anything in itself, you'll have to judge.

The D7000 is a very good camera and does an excellent job with handling noise at elevated ISO levels. Not as good as a full frame sensor but still, very good nonetheless. I wouldn't even consider the D300s as its £100 more expensive than the D7000, for an inferior sensor. Okay, it has a magnesium alloy body, better weather sealing but, for the money the D7000 is much better bang for the buck.

Likewise the D5100 is another excellent camera. Sensor performance is almost identical to the D7000. Downsides are that it doesn't have a body focus motor and so lose AF on the older D type lenses. I also think you lose the metering with AI/AI-S lenses. Max shutter speed is 1/4000 sec compared to 1/8000 on the D7000. The D7000 also has higher FPS than the D5100 but, for landscape and macro photography, neither are going to be of particular concern. No focus motor means you either stick to AF-S lenses to maintain autofocus, or use the D lenses in MF. You might also want to consider the Pentax K5 too in the APS-C range.

[ianpinion]

Originally Posted by amk1977

I too suspect that you'll be waiting a while before someone can speak of the merits of the E5. Not a particularly frequent choice of camera for a majority of togs. Whether that says anything in itself, you'll have to judge.

The D7000 is a very good camera and does an excellent job with handling noise at elevated ISO levels. Not as good as a full frame sensor but still, very good nonetheless. I wouldn't even consider the D300s as its £100 more expensive than the D7000, for an inferior sensor. Okay, it has a magnesium alloy body, better weather sealing but, for the money the D7000 is much better bang for the buck.

Likewise the D5100 is another excellent camera. Sensor performance is almost identical to the D7000. Downsides are that it doesn't have a body focus motor and so lose AF on the older D type lenses. I also think you lose the metering with AI/AI-S lenses. Max shutter speed is 1/4000 sec compared to 1/8000 on the D7000. The D7000 also has higher FPS than the D5100 but, for landscape and macro photography, neither are going to be of particular concern. No focus motor means you either stick to AF-S lenses to maintain autofocus, or use the D lenses in MF. You might also want to consider the Pentax K5 too in the APS-C range.

I'm not going to entertain a Nikon D5100 as it's not really a step up from what I already have. Afterall, it is a beginners/enthusiasts camera. I'm looking for something akin to a semi-pro calibre camera. For your information, the E5 has been rated as a Which? Best Buy, thanks in part to the excellent Zuiko lenses. It score very highly for image quality in good light and lowlight conditions, but it's achilles heel is it's noisey at high ISOs.

I have to be honest and say I am a fan of Olympus, despite them only being a niche brand and Olympus themselves it seems concentrating their efforts on their PEN system cameras. I will take more than just a little persuading to move away from this brand, saying that I always used to have Pentax cameras when I was shooting with film.

[amk1977]

I'm not trying to denigrate the E5 or Olympus brand. Indeed I really enjoyed using the E-510 and loved the fact that I could use so many old glass lenses from pretty much all manufacturers with adapters. It was a fun camera and I learned a lot using it. I got a bit addicted to the old glasses lenses and had a ridiculous amount of them lol.

I think you've hit the nail on the head though Ian with the "good lighting conditions". Any DSLR is going to perform well in good light, whether its an old D40 or king of ISO - the D3s. If every photo opportunity presented itself in a decent amount of light, we need only buy entry level cameras as ISO sensitivity and noise wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, they don't and its when you step into the realms of lowlight/high ISO that a cameras sensor can become all important. The Olympus cameras definitely fall short in that department.

To give you some idea, Dx0Mark gives the E5 a score of 519 for lowlight ISO. My D90 achieves 977. D7000 scored 1167, with D700 topping up at 2303. The entry level D5100 scores 1183! Considering the £1500 price tag of the E5 and it being the flagship model for the Olympus E-volt range, you can see why its not a popular choice with the vast majority of photographers, when cameras with superior sensors can be had for half that price. For £200 more you can get yourself a full frame Canon 5D MKII, which is the absolute mutts nutts of a camera!

Personally, I think Olympus have resolved themselves to the fact that the E-Volt range aren't able to match the performance of the bigger manufactures like Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc, and is why they have focused their efforts on the PEN system, as its a niche they are probably better suited to.

Although the D5100 is marketed as an entry level DSLR, I think you'd be very surprised by its performance. Sensor wise its as good as its bigger brother the D7000 and is actually a step up over the E620, in both its ISO performance and EV range. Don't forget its a 2 year old camera now and the technology has moved on greatly in that short time period. I wouldn't write it off, just because it is marketed as an entry level DSLR. In some respects its better than my D90. If it had a focus motor, i'd actually consider it myself, as I use a few D-type lenses. If I were to upgrade from the D90, the D7000 would be in the runnings, although I'd love the d700 for the full frame and low noise that goes with it. A small lottery win and I'd sporting a new D3s lol.

[ianpinion]

Originally Posted by amk1977

I'm not trying to denigrate the E5 or Olympus brand. Indeed I really enjoyed using the E-510 and loved the fact that I could use so many old glass lenses from pretty much all manufacturers with adapters. It was a fun camera and I learned a lot using it. I got a bit addicted to the old glasses lenses and had a ridiculous amount of them lol.

I think you've hit the nail on the head though Ian with the "good lighting conditions". Any DSLR is going to perform well in good light, whether its an old D40 or king of ISO - the D3s. If every photo opportunity presented itself in a decent amount of light, we need only buy entry level cameras as ISO sensitivity and noise wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, they don't and its when you step into the realms of lowlight/high ISO that a cameras sensor can become all important. The Olympus cameras definitely fall short in that department.

To give you some idea, Dx0Mark gives the E5 a score of 519 for lowlight ISO. My D90 achieves 977. D7000 scored 1167, with D700 topping up at 2303. The entry level D5100 scores 1183! Considering the £1500 price tag of the E5 and it being the flagship model for the Olympus E-volt range, you can see why its not a popular choice with the vast majority of photographers, when cameras with superior sensors can be had for half that price. For £200 more you can get yourself a full frame Canon 5D MKII, which is the absolute mutts nutts of a camera!

Personally, I think Olympus have resolved themselves to the fact that the E-Volt range aren't able to match the performance of the bigger manufactures like Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc, and is why they have focused their efforts on the PEN system, as its a niche they are probably better suited to.

Although the D5100 is marketed as an entry level DSLR, I think you'd be very surprised by its performance. Sensor wise its as good as its bigger brother the D7000 and is actually a step up over the E620, in both its ISO performance and EV range. Don't forget its a 2 year old camera now and the technology has moved on greatly in that short time period. I wouldn't write it off, just because it is marketed as an entry level DSLR. In some respects its better than my D90. If it had a focus motor, i'd actually consider it myself, as I use a few D-type lenses. If I were to upgrade from the D90, the D7000 would be in the runnings, although I'd love the d700 for the full frame and low noise that goes with it. A small lottery win and I'd sporting a new D3s lol.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone was denigrating Olympus E-volt cameras and the reviews I've read about the E5 mention that it's sensor and new picture processing engine produce image quality on a par with other cameras with much higher resolution sensors in both lowlight and good lighting conditions. It is only when you have to turn the ISO up above 500 that noise becomes apparent, though above 800 ISO is when the image quality really is poor compared with either the D7000 or 7D.

The reason I am ruling out the D5100 is because it isn't a big enough step up from what I already have. As I've previously mentioned, I am after a semi pro level camera and no matter how much you big the D5100 up, it still falls someway short of this marker. I also want my new camera to have a bright 100% viewfinder and having handled a D5100 at the Focus on Imaging show this year, I know it doesn't meet my criteria.

Anyway, I think I need to narrow down the choice of cameras I am going to consider. On my list already are:

• Nikon D7000
• Canon 7D
• Canon 5D MkII
• Pentax K-5
• Olympus E5

I wonder which one offers the best value for money?

[donoreo]

Value for money, that is a real subjective judgement. It depends on what features are most important. I know several people who think the Pentax K-5 is great value for money. Get yours hands on all of them if you have not yet, but bear in mind they will all feel different from your current one.

[ianpinion]

When I'm considering value for money, it's the combination of the range and quality of the lenses available and the features and performance of each camera.

[Cathus]

Originally Posted by amk1977

To give you some idea, Dx0Mark gives the E5 a score of 519 for lowlight ISO. My D90 achieves 977. D7000 scored 1167, with D700 topping up at 2303.

What is this scoring system of which you speak, I'd quite like to comopare my 2 cameras.

[amk1977]

Originally Posted by Cathus

What is this scoring system of which you speak, I'd quite like to comopare my 2 cameras.

Its http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam...Camera-Sensors

They recently altered the lay out of the site and its a bit of a PITA compared to the old version. I find the easiest way to use it is if you choose "sort by name A-Z" to arrange the makes alphabetically. Then simply flip through the pages to find your cameras. As you're a Canon user, all yours should be on the first page. Hit "Select" underneath the image of each camera you want to compare.

Just a heads up. Each time you select a camera, the highlighted blue box will jump from "select cameras" to "view scores and specs". Once you select your first camera, you will need to choose "select cameras" again to pick another camera to add. Took me a few minutes to work that one out, the first time I used the new format on the site lol.