Why's and Wherefore's?

[pburness]

Originally Posted by Cathus

I think there is sometimes too much emphasis on the deep & meaningful philosophy behind photography. The ins & outs of a cats' backside about the meaning behind a shot, what it means, what it conveys, the personalities involved, etc, etc as if a shot doesn't have sufficient gravitas unless you are able to write an essay on the whys & wherefores.

It sometimes feels as if you are less of a photographer if you present an image just because 'you liked it'.

I'm not sure it makes you less of a photographer - I think 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', and therefore some people will like it and some won't.

I did an MBTI course Myers Briggs and as part of the course we were assembled into our personality types then each group shown a picture (the same picture), each group had to write down what they saw in the picture (Basically, it was a swiss scene with a field, mountain, hut and some flowers and trees) - all types got the basics, but the group I was in also noticed, no roads or power lines, no people or animals, the hut was wood and had no windows, and bizarrly, the shadow of the hut pointed towards us, while the shadow of the trees pointed away
While all personality types are valid - what this simple experiment brought home is we all view things differently dependent upon our personalities.

So what's the best picture? Simple; The one you, as an individual, like looking at....

Phil

[ABERS]

Originally Posted by ABERS

Today our club members are putting up their panels of prints for the club's annual exhibition, there is no selection process to go through, you put up what you like, usually in a panel of six prints, or whatever number you think will fit into the space available to you.

With some 60+ people exhibiting there will be a wide range of genres for the public to view. The viewers comprise people who come in off the street and have very little or no idea about the photographic process that has been gone through to arrive at the pictures on view, and photographers.

It is usually the former group that enjoy the exhibition for what it is, a display of pictures, and go away pleased that they have spent 30-60 minutes visiting, depending on the weather outside!

The second group, the photographers, spend ages looking, examining, discussing amonst themselves the why's and wherefores of the pictures.

So perhaps the old saying "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" is applicable to looking at pictures.

Exhibition closed last Monday having been visited by 800+ people.

The panel voted 'Best in Show' was almost the same as last year and comprised six very large images of beach scenes at either dawn or dusk with the inevitable low angle and milky water inclusion, with rocks and pebbles prominent in the foreground.

Each one would have eventually made POTD if posted here in the galleries!

That it seems is what the public like.

[GeoffWessex]

What's your experience of the 'public' reaction to black and white prints? Clearly it's a favourite with many photographers, but our club also has a 'Peoples Choice' voting system during our annual exhibition..... lots of pictures get at least a few votes from casual punters but I shouldn't think anybody's voted (in numbers, at least) for a b&w print since the club was founded in the 60s.

[ABERS]

Originally Posted by GeoffWessex

What's your experience of the 'public' reaction to black and white prints? Clearly it's a favourite with many photographers, but our club also has a 'Peoples Choice' voting system during our annual exhibition..... lots of pictures get at least a few votes from casual punters but I shouldn't think anybody's voted (in numbers, at least) for a b&w print since the club was founded in the 60s.

As far as the 'public voting' is concerned I really have no idea, there isn't a 1-2-3 published, just the winner.

What I can say is that whilst stewarding and answering visitors' questions it always amazes me that the non-photographically aware ones seem to think that B+W is a new phenomenon and usally say how they find the experience of seeing a good B+W quite impactful. The older ones usually say "I see B+W is still used".

Newcomers to the club seem somewhat bemused by the genre and have little or no understanding what B+W is all about, whilst others give it a go thinking just pressing the convert to B+W is all that is required.

As far as the best in show is concerned it's regarded by some as a poison chalice, with remarks such as 'It's the ultimate Chocolate Box picture award".

[GeoffWessex]

Interesting, ABERS.... in my club I run a 'friendly' competition monthly and this month's was just for B&W - no 'theme' as such. About a quarter of the 72 entries were in 'Grayscale', only a handful showed a good histogram and I should think that many just thought "Oh, here's a decent picture, I'll make in B&W" - regardless of how the composition looked. In the last few days I've crammed a few links and general monochrome advice into our website's tutorial section.

The ease of making a good B&W - especially with the help of something like Nik Silver Efex - makes modern digital B&W even more viable than it was with film - but it makes us realise 'how much craft went into the art' in the past, and with our favourite early photographers.

Good point about the public choice being for 'pretty' pictures. But does that mean that the general public should know more about photography or should the photographs just appeal, whatever the visual and graphical 'experience' of the viewer? We often have 'graphic design' people - art school graduates etc - in to judge our competitions and, unless they're over 50, they don't really 'get' B&W. So perhaps the appreciation of B&W depends on previous experience.

[Cathus]

it just goes to show that to get the right result you need to target the relevant audience.

In our club I am currently leading all 3 categories (B&W, Colour Print & Digital Image) with 3 comps down & 1 to go for the year.

In the public vote at our recent annual exhibition I could only manage a 7th & several shots above mine didn't score anything in club comps with outside judges.

[ABERS]

Originally Posted by Cathus

it just goes to show that to get the right result you need to target the relevant audience.

In our club I am currently leading all 3 categories (B&W, Colour Print & Digital Image) with 3 comps down & 1 to go for the year.

In the public vote at our recent annual exhibition I could only manage a 7th & several shots above mine didn't score anything in club comps with outside judges.

Ah club judges! A subject dear to my heart

[Cathus]

Tell me about it Abers.

We're now making notes about what judges like to target our inter-club entries.

In this day & age of equality it's surprising that women judges seem to like, on the whole, different things to male judges. Boys toys generally don't go down too well (sport, planes, vehicles)

[GeoffWessex]

I wonder if there ought to be a 'camera club' section on this forum - I've feeling that us 'camera club people' have a raft of subjects worth discussing but they would probably leave the non-clubbers cold.

Our club usually 'appoints' an experienced club member to the judging panel on each of the rounds of the annual competition - and usually one of them is female. I can't say I've noticed that they're biased towards one kind of picture over another, but then we don't see the individual judges' scores.

I try to get the Competitions manager to find more people from the 'art world' - I feel that a picture's impact and composition are more important than technical quality (in fact, if the first two elements are good, technical aspects are either less important or - being perhaps easier to learn - are usually of a good standard on a well-composed shot).

The 'arty' judges we get, though, tend to see pictures and score them at one end or the other - the visual impact is almost everything and it either works or it doesn't. They're 'primed' with some judging guidance notes beforehand but not many non-photographers seem to read them.... so they'll give either very low or very high scores. We halt proceedings when scores between judges differ wildly but it doesn't quite solve the problem.

Any other points about selecting judges?

Cathus..... well done with your competitions! That's a lot of images to submit. I've been looking at a few British camera club sites and often see two or three 'divisions' (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) but I really can't see how that works - a beginner can easily submit an image which might be the best image of the year, so can they only win their own 'division' with it? We have over 80 members now and those divisions could work for us but they only seem to benefit the 'prize hunters' and serve little purpose. Any opinions on that?

Our members also complain of 'too many competitions' and yet it's really just one competition, with three rounds (submitting 4 images per round). We do three rounds (of four images) because if it were just two rounds (of six images) there would be far too many images to judge (and give critique to). I feel like I'm chasing my tail sometimes! Maybe it's time to reduce the overall submissions in a year to 8 or 9 (two rounds of 4 or three of 3).

Anyway..... AGM tonight, time for more complaints!

Oh, and one more thing..... the Photographic Alliance of GB (PAGB) the umbrella organisation of many British photo clubs - has anybody seen their website. Amazing, a top amateur photographic organisation and not a picture in sight!

[ABERS]

We have two distinct sections in our club as far as competitions are concerned, the Open and Closed, both for monthly competitions, which are distinct from the annual trophies but which still have the same divisions.

The only one that is restricted as far as entry is concerned is the Closed and means that it is restricted to the less experienced member. Past winners and anyone with an ARPS or FRPS are excluded. The Open section is, as it infers, open to all members so it is possible for a beginner to win that competition, as has happened in the past.

Our club is affiliated to the SPA, The Surrey Photograpic Alliance, which in turn is part of the PAGB. These are really just 'organising' bodies that arrange inter-club and inter-region competitions both locally, regionally and nationally. A little like the F.A. is to football.

The SPA does hold a bi-annual exhibtion where entries are drawn from all the clubs that make up the association.

The SPA also holds 'training courses' for budding and wannabee judges, with the intention that they all sing off the same hymn sheet, but as far as I'm concerned they seem to all have different hymn sheets!

Judges are a whole different can of worms and something that could occupy acres of comment and discussion.