legal stealing?

Originally Posted by ABERS

Is there anybody there??

indeed mate, so much for the promised "more team interaction"

[Marcus Hawkins]

Hello

Apologies for the delay in responding.

I have been consulting with Future's legal team extensively and hope that the changes to the terms and conditions clarify points. (Yes, there have been some changes!)

Section 5 is where I hope some transparency has been added. "Future will not publish your images in any other Future publications or those of its group companies without express prior permission. Future and its group companies will never sell your images and/or photographs without express prior permission, whereupon royalties will be discussed with you."

'Express prior permission' means exactly that - any Future magazine will have to get permission from you before it can print your images. Accepting the terms and conditions does not count as express prior permission - it merely means you're accepting the terms for using the website.

Abers, in response to your queries:

Do the T&C's apply to images posted in the Forums that are not within the galleries, if that is possible. i.e. to illustrate an example or specific technique?
Yes, the T&C's apply to the whole of PhotoRadar.

Having ticked the box with the 'new' T&C's does that release those images already posted under the old ones?
Any new terms and conditions supercede earlier ones - they will apply to any images posted under previous versions. I don't think PhotoRadar is unique in this respect.

If you delete an image from your gallery, does Future have no further claim on it?
I'm sure you can see that it would be impracticable for the team to keep track of images that have been removed from the site and then remove them from screenshots that have been used to advertise the site, mentions in blogs, newsletters and the like. Future's not really making any 'claim' on your images, and I'd emphasise again the fact that no Future publication could use images without getting your permission first.

happypaddler, if you want to query the T&Cs, and so don't want to agree to them when logging in, you can always contact us directly to raise issues without logging in.

All the best

Marcus

[ABERS]

Many thanks for the clarification Marcus. Little seems to have changed and like many others I'm sure, I'm not happy handing over my work to some anonymous faceless person within Future to use how they deem fit within the organisation, even with the promise of contacting me beforehand.

I'm one of the people that USED to trust my bank!

[NormanLaw]

ABERS, I notice that you use Flickr. Their terms and conditions, here, don't seem significantly different to PhotoRadar's yet you are happy to submit pictures there.

[ABERS]

Originally Posted by NormanLaw

ABERS, I notice that you use Flickr. Their terms and conditions, here, don't seem significantly different to PhotoRadar's yet you are happy to submit pictures there.

Yes I am, I suppose it's because we're talking about two different organisations. One seems well organised and the other somewhat lacking in that particular field, and then again why leave yourself open to two potential rip-offs?

My experience with Flickr is good, I have received various requests by other users for permission to use images on their web magazine sites, and from a couple of educational sites, so I suppose it comes down to a feeling of trust.

I suppose it comes down to disappointment, PR hasn't really delivered what it promised.

The new T&Cs (as I read and ticked today to enter the site) seem more reasonable now - Having said this, there is still the point that a photograph can be copied from the site; and for pictures you value for their possible commercial potential, watermarking or similar limiting process is probably very wise.

(Remembering that with the editing software available today, low resolution pics can be made high resolution very easily and with a skilled editor markings can be cloned away)

Regards
Andy

[NormanLaw]

Why don't you practice what you preach? Your image (link below) is 2500px × 3334px, no-one will have any difficulty if they want to use that. All my images have my name on and none are larger than 600px on the longest side. That is true on this site or my own site. Anyone wanting to steal one of my images will have a bit of work to do. Why make it easy for them?

[ap4a]

Flickr is one of the worst sites for having your work stolen. I've had to send numerous take-down requests as a result of misuses of the Flickr API (any 3rd party use of my images is a misuse as they are ARR), including by a major US corporation that got a very large UK law firm involved to defend themselves. Flickr has quite flimsy terms that can easily be interpreted to allow them to ignore complaints by users, and they're very often more interested in protecting their API users than they are their content providing users.

Originally Posted by Marcus Hawkins

happypaddler, if you want to query the T&Cs, and so don't want to agree to them when logging in, you can always contact us directly to raise issues without logging in.

All the best

Marcus

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for your comments, I know what you are saying, but if you want this forum to be open and transparent, its only fair that we can continue to comment, even if we do not agree with the T & C's, so that everyone is aware of the issues. Again I know that it would be a tall order allowing this to take place, so I'm not asking you to. I have just not uploaded as its those sections that I do not agree with.

You sill did not answer some of my other points. I have, again agreed to the further amendments to the T & C's since my last post - which are much much better by the way - but my other points are still valid:

Within section 5, it is stated:
“With respect to Content you upload, post or otherwise transmit to the Website that consists of images and photographs, you grant Future and its group companies a non-exclusive, royalty free, perpetual, world-wide licence to use, modify, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such Content: (i) on and through the Website and Website Service, including associated newsletters; and (ii) to promote the Website. Future will not publish your images in any other Future publications or those of its group companies without express prior permission. Future and its group companies will never sell your images and/or photographs without express prior permission, whereupon royalties will be discussed with you.”

This still allows Future to use images without any further requests to do so, providing that they are used only for advertising this web site, or in “associated newsletters” (a term not defined), providing it is used only for advertising. Other uses will require Future to obtain consent first. If you wold be so kind as to explain what you mean by "associated newsletters", I would be grateful. As to the rest, I'm not that bothered if you were to use my images only for purposes of advertising (not that they are up to the standard of some of the other posters). My caveat would be not using those photos I have deleted (see my next para).

As to your comment to Abers about not being able to keep track of photos if they have been deleted, that is plan and simple tripe. I assume that if you or one of your staff team see an image that they want to use - or may want to use in the future - they download it. All that person needs to do is to add to the metadata the owners name, possibly even the direct link to that persons gallery. Then prior to using that image, whoever is compiling the "newsletter" has a quick look on the gallery to see if it is still on the site. Providing that it is at the time you send it to the printers/email client for distribution, you have covered you back. If its no longer there - you chose another image which is.

Another paragraph which I asked for clarification on, and had no reply (still within Section 5):
“With respect to all other Content you upload, post or otherwise transmit to the Website, you grant Future and its group companies a non-exclusive, royalty free, sub-licensable, perpetual, world-wide licence to use, modify, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such Content (in whole or part): (i) on and through the Website and Website Service; and (ii) in any other form or medium now known or later developed.”

So if I publish a short video on how to, for example, complete a certain technique within say aperture - Future suddenly have my permission to use that for whatever they so wish...

To be honest I am personally now happy with the T & C's, providing that Future sort out the bits regarding checking if an image has been removed from a gallery prior to use for advertising the website only. I would also still like to know what the term "associated newsletters" covers - is it public or press release type stuff; does it go out only to members, or to people out of the blue as an advert type thing...

Originally Posted by NormanLaw

Why don't you practice what you preach? Your image (link below) is 2500px × 3334px, no-one will have any difficulty if they want to use that. All my images have my name on and none are larger than 600px on the longest side. That is true on this site or my own site. Anyone wanting to steal one of my images will have a bit of work to do. Why make it easy for them?

Thanks for the timely reminder Norman - Now images can be deleted / changed without the earlier probs - I am revamping my gallery

Cheers
Andy